Tips for Building Math Fact Fluency with Danna Rodebush (EP34)

Hey teachers. Today is a very special episode as I welcome my very first guest to the podcast, Danna Rodebush!

Danna is a former elementary classroom teacher and the founder of Teacher Tech Studio and Southern Schoolhouse. Danna is also the creator of Math Simplified as well as the host of the Upper Elementary Simplified podcast. She helps upper elementary math teachers provide engaging and meaningful math instruction while cutting down on their planning time. She also believes a structured guided math routine is the key to student engagement, comprehension, and retention, and that all math skills rely on basic fact fluency and vocabulary comprehension.

I think you’ll really enjoy this episode because not only did we we discuss the importance of math fact fluency, we also discussed a few different ways that teachers can support their students in learning their facts, so I definitely think you’ll walk away with a few ideas to try in your classroom.

I do want to apologize for some of the sound quality. I’m not sure the Zoom picked up my microphone, and I also was having a couple connectivity issues throughout the episode. 

Of course, I didn’t know about it until we were finished and I went back and listened. Hopefully, it’s not a big deal. I still think you’ll really enjoy this episode.

Alright, let’s get to the episode.

Welcome to Elementary Math Chat, a podcast for all elementary math teachers looking for ideas and support when it comes to teaching elementary math. I’m your host, Annamarie Krejci from Krejci Creations, and after 20 years of teaching fourth and fifth grade math, I am ready to share my experiences in the classroom to help improve yours. Whether you are a brand new teacher, new to teaching math or simply looking for a change, join me each week as we discuss all things elementary math. Let’s get started.

Annamarie: Hey everyone, and welcome to a very special episode of Elementary Math Chat. Today I have my very first guest on the podcast, Danna Rodebush from Teacher Tech Studio and the host of the Upper Elementary Simplified podcast is here to discuss a topic that so many students struggle with, which is math fact fluency. First and foremost, welcome to the podcast, Danna!

Danna: Thank you so much for having me.

Annamarie: Before we jump into today’s topic, tell us a little bit about yourself, your teaching background, and how you service teachers today.

Danna: Of course, I am super excited to be here. My name is Danna Rodebush. I probably don’t even need to say this, but I am a Southern girl. I’m sure it is very evident in my accent, but I am from Arkansas. I have lived here my entire life and have no plans of ever leaving here. I taught fifth grade in the public school system for seven years, and I’m now out of the classroom going on two years. So now I am serving teachers and students by providing resources that are designed to make learning fun and planning simple for teachers.

Annamarie: Well, I think that’s music to any teacher’s ears, fun and simple. That’s what they need.

Danna: Absolutely.

Annamarie: Well, I’m so glad you’re here to talk about fluency because I’ve touched on it here and there, but I haven’t really talked about fluency programs or how to implement them, and I know this is your area of expertise. Let’s go ahead and get to the basics and talk about what we mean by fact fluency. So, in your words, what is math fact fluency, and what makes you fluent?

Danna: So, math fact fluency is the automatic recall of basic math facts without conscious effort. This can mean any of the four basic math operations; addition, subtraction, multiplication, or division. So, obviously, it is super important to have automatic recall with addition and subtraction. But for elementary and even middle school teachers, we are more experienced with the lack of multiplication fact fluency.

So, mastery refers to having great skill at something or total dominance over something. So, if you are fluent in a language, you have mastery of that language. When I describe multiplication fact fluency, I always say that there are three characteristics that a student must have to be considered fluent or mastered with a single multiplication fact.

Number one is that the product can be accurately recalled within five seconds. If they recall a product quickly but it is incorrect, or if they recall a correct product, but it takes longer than five seconds, then this is not mastery. This means that they should practice with that specific fact to become fluent with that fact.

The second characteristic of math fact mastery is that in that five-second recall, the product is pulled from memory, and not from using counting strategies, and this includes skip counting and nines tricks. I know that counting strategies are so important, but for the purpose of multiplication fact mastery, it really needs to be pulled from memory.

And then the third characteristic of math fact mastery builds on the first two even further in that every math fact one through 12 is recalled within that five seconds from memory. So, this means that not only does the student recall from memory within five seconds, that seven times nine equals 63, but also that nine times seven equals 63. So, they are familiar with and they’re fluent with both facts. It’s kind of strange, but for some reason, seven times nine looks different than nine times seven sometimes.

Annamarie: That’s so true. For me, it was always easier to have that larger factor first. I think that’s why the Commutative Property is so important for students to recognize and for teachers to also teach because I do think it’s much easier to have that larger factor first, at least for me it was.

I agree with your three characteristics. I mean, I had one student who, anytime he worked with six, sevens, or eights, would have to go through every single multiple first. He could get the fact within five seconds, but I wouldn’t say he was fluent. He was fluent in his multiples. I mean, literally, if he had to do eight times seven, or seven times eight, he’d go on his fingers 7,14, 21, 28, 35, 42 until he got the answer.

For me, I just realized, like, I got to pick my battles, and I was way less worried about him because he would get the right answer. I was a lot more worried about people doing that with threes and fours or having to look at a multiplication chart every single time.

So, let’s move on to the importance of memorizing math facts. Why are math facts and fluency so important?

Danna: The lack of fluency with multiplication facts, as I say, has become the biggest roadblock for students, which causes them to struggle with higher-level math. So, it’s not that they lack the ability to reach a solution. It’s that they are using inefficient strategies to reach the solution.

If they are not pulling products from memory, but instead they’re using those counting strategies, this doesn’t necessarily mean that they don’t know seven times nine is 63, or that they can’t figure out that seven times nine is 63. It just means that they need to practice and commit to memory seven times nine equals 63 so that they can automatically recall that fact when they need it for a higher level expression, like 287 times 39.

Annamarie: Absolutely. I mean, I look back at middle school and high school, and even college for that matter. I don’t know how I would have survived had I not known my math facts or not had them memorized. I guess that’s why I always did well, and I enjoyed math. It was never a stressor for me. This is a huge reason why students struggle and then begin to hate math, and I know you have an opinion about that as well.

Danna: Absolutely. So again, I have three reasons why I think multiplication fluency is important and really must be memorized to be considered mastered.

And they are number one, to relieve the frustration that is sure to build if they don’t have their facts memorized. So, what I mean by this is that when a student is trying to solve a higher-level math expression, like 287 times 39, and he has to stop in the middle of the algorithm to find the product of seven times nine, and then again, with nine times eight, and so on, he is going to get so distracted in the process. This causes frustration because it ends up taking him so much longer to reach the final product than if he was able to recall those products quickly from memory.

The second reason students should have math facts memorized is to help them be more efficient in solving higher-level math expressions, so they don’t have to spend several minutes using counting strategies to figure out the product of seven times nine and nine times eight. Instead, they can quickly recall these products so that they can move on in the algorithm.

And then number three is to help them with the accuracy in their calculation. So, as I mentioned before, when students have to stop in the middle of the algorithm when they are solving a higher-level math expression, they are more likely to get distracted and miss a step in the process leading to an incorrect solution. Not only does this distraction lead to frustration and inefficiency, but it also leads to inaccuracy.

Annamarie: I’ve stressed this with my students as well. I think as teachers we can see how this will affect them in the long run, which is why we try so hard to help them with fluency. I really do think they only have so much brainpower for one day. So, if they’re having to spend so much of their brainpower on one question, I think it wears them out and builds this negative relationship with math by requiring so much effort for one problem.

Now, I know you’ve presented on math fluency before. We actually both presented last summer at the Cheerful Math Conference. You’ve also written an article about this. So, tell me why you are so passionate about this topic.

Danna: When I was in the classroom, I taught fifth grade. From my very first year, I was literally shocked at how many students would come to me as fifth graders not knowing their basic multiplication facts. When I was an elementary student, memorizing math facts was just a normal part of the learning process, and somewhere along the way, this crucial element of our education system just kind of disappeared, among other things.

So sadly, I would see those same kids struggle with the higher-level math that I was trying to teach them. How can I expect them to solve 287 times 39 if they don’t know nine times seven, or nine times eight by memory? Sure, they can use counting strategies to find the product. But while they are using those strategies, they are also getting distracted by where they were at in the process of the algorithm, and this leads to frustration, inaccuracy, and inefficiency, which all leads to hating math.

In the article that you referenced, I talked a little bit about how I described multiplication fact fluency like baking a cake, and so if you’re interested in hearing that, go check that out. We’ll have the link in the show notes for that. So, that is why I am now on a mission to encourage teachers to bring back the emphasis on multiplication fact fluency like it used to be back in the good old days.

Annamarie: Yeah, I agree. Growing up, it felt like you were not going to pass third grade unless you knew your facts. I was shocked as well when I became a teacher, and I saw the same struggle. I also started in fifth grade. And, you know, it’s funny. You talked about counting strategies and using your hands. I don’t know if you experienced this, but I would have kids who would hide their fingers under the table. They did not want me to see them use their fingers. So, I think they’re a little bit ashamed of it, but they’ve relied on it so much, they can’t do it without it.

So, let’s talk about a solution. What can teachers do to improve math fact fluency with their students?

Danna: They can encourage memorization through repetition. So, it’s a big thing. It’s a process that begins with explaining to your students the why behind memorization, and it builds excitement by letting them know how much easier and even more fun math is going to be when they have their multiplication facts memorized. They’re no longer going to have to spend 10 minutes solving one problem, and I have seen that before. It’s very frustrating.

They are not going to get frustrated or intimidated by higher-level math expressions, and they are going to be more accurate and efficient with their solutions.

Now, there are some great computer practice programs available for teachers, but I want to encourage teachers not to fall into the belief that these programs are accurately assessing mastery and tracking mastery. They are really only good for practicing fluency. So, just for practice, not necessarily assessing mastery.

I explain a little bit more about this in my free workshop all about creating a system in your classroom to build multiplication fact fluency, and in this workshop, I give you the tools that you need to get your own fluency-building program up and running in your classroom. It’s a 25-minute prerecorded video workshop that you can get instant access to when you sign up, and you can find it at www.teachertechstudio.com/masterclass.

I would love to invite your audience to come and check it out so that they can help their students really start to build a positive relationship with math!

Annamarie: Yes, I’m sure they would love this, and this is something they can start the year with. I know we’re in April, and you know, they probably have passed the multiplication fact fluency portion, but it’d be a great thing to start next year with.

Also, these tips would be great to share with their parents as well. I know I had parents reach out all the time about how they could help with math facts. So, I think teachers can definitely pass these on to their parents.

Speaking of tips, at the end of every episode I end with a teaching tip of the week. So, I would love for you to share one of the tips from your workshop to be our Teaching Tip of the Week!

Danna: Absolutely! I would say that teachers who are trying to implement a strategy to build multiplication fact fluency should be very conscious of the fact that for some students, this is going to feel very overwhelming depending on the relationship with math.

So, it’s very important that you position this challenge as one that is going to make math easier for them and make it exciting by offering incentives and milestones that they can work towards, rather than making them feel like they are trying to tackle this massive challenge all at once by themselves.

And when it’s possible, it’s great to get families involved, because then they can also support the student outside of school, as you are all working together as a team to build fluency.

Annamarie: I think fluency is one of those things that parents can help with at home. It’s simple. It’s almost like spelling, like yes, I can help with a spelling test. And I totally agree about the programs. I’ve had the most success with math facts when I’ve done some sort of incentive program.

I remember my first year of teaching, I put their names on these footballs, and then every test they passed, they moved up 10 yards until they got a touchdown. I can’t remember if I had a reward. I’m sure I did.

But the most success I’ve had with an incentive program was with a pizza party challenge. They had these little cheese pizza cutouts with their name on them, and then every time they passed a test, they got to put a red sticker on their pizza to make it look like a pepperoni. So, when they passed their 2’s, they put a red sticker on their pizza and wrote a 2 on it, and so on.

But here was the challenge. Every single student had to pass every test before they earned the party. So, it wasn’t like whoever passed got the pizza party. It was all or none. So, what happened was they started helping each other, and they were doing flashcards together, something that I never saw before, and it was just really neat to watch.

I remember I had one girl who had passed every single test except her 8’s. She just struggled so much with her 8’s, and she had friends working with her every day until she finally got them, and this worked. I had every single student pass, and that was the first time that that ever happened. So, I agree with you. It can work. It has to be done with memorization and practice. It takes work. I think that’s another thing we have to stress with our kids. This takes work and practice, and you can get there.

Danna: Absolutely. I agree 100%.

Annamarie: I know our listeners through your workshop are going to get to know a lot more about setting up their own fluency program, and so my final question for you, Danna, is where can listeners find you if they want to connect and learn more about what you offer and more about fact fluency?

Danna: Yeah, so they can connect with me on my website teachertechstudio.com. They can join my free Facebook group or Upper Elementary Simplified, or they can also listen and subscribe to my podcast which is also Upper Elementary Simplified.

On my podcast for the past several weeks, I’ve been talking a lot about multiplication fact fluency. So, if anyone listening is interested in learning more about this topic, you can find several episodes about fact fluency on the Upper Elementary Simplified podcast.

Annamarie: Awesome. Well, I will have all of those links in the show notes along with the link to the episode I did on your podcast, Upper Elementary Simplified. So, thank you again, Danna, for being here.

Danna: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate it.

Annamarie: Have a great week everyone, and I will see you next Tuesday!